这样的气胸不少见,胸腔穿刺需谨慎!

2018-06-26 云南省一院孙丹雄 医学界呼吸频道

居然还有慢性气胸,你是在逗我么?

居然还有慢性气胸,你是在逗我么?

我没有逗你,出家人不打诳语,杏林中人不逗你,中文核心期刊,英文杂志都有相关文献。

遇到慢性气胸,胸腔穿刺要谨慎,不要冲动、不要随便选择气胸穿刺的常规部位(锁骨中线第二肋间)穿刺抽气。

前不久会诊,遇到一个患者,CT如下:



平卧位,主动脉弓层面,没有气胸。



隆突层面,少量气胸。



中叶支气管层面,气胸增多。



膈肌层面,气胸更多。

有人提议,胸腔穿刺。

胸腔穿刺也需要高级物理学知识。

根据牛顿万有引力定律,水往低处流,气往高处走。病人取半卧位,气体往高处流,气胸跑到上面,选择锁骨中线第二肋间穿刺抽气。

然而,牛顿定律在这里真的适用吗?懂牛顿定理,不一定懂胸腔穿刺。懂办案不一定懂统计学。不懂统计学就不懂得公正。

听说有医生误诊尘肺接近100%被捉去坐牢了。真的是呵呵。

要是这样,我去把张三老师每年高考失利的100个同学全部集合起来,一做统计:张三老师教过的学生,100%高考失利。

把青霉素过敏的100个病人挑出来,一做统计:青霉素过敏发生率100%。

统计学先辈的棺材板按不住了,Michael Jackson开唱《Thriller》了,过来帮帮忙。

这是现实中胸腔穿刺,不是电视剧中各种无视地心引力的一毛特效轻功,让牛顿的棺材板经常按不住。

胸膜分为贴在胸壁的壁层胸膜和贴在肺表面的脏层胸膜。

仔细看看,这个患者的脏层胸膜增厚,提示气胸很可能不是近期的事情,很可能是长时间造成的,正常的肺表面不会有增厚的、白色的一圈。



追问病史,患者诉没有任何呼吸系统症状,气胸是偶然发现的。很明显,这个患者要考虑慢性气胸。

下面怎么办?慢性气胸很可能是非流动性气胸:气胸可能不随着体位大幅度变化。那么,在穿刺之前,做一个站立位胸片就显得很有必要。

后来病人做了站立位胸片,结果显示:选择锁骨中线第二肋间穿刺抽气,是很不妥当的。

气胸主要在左下肺,左上肺的肺纹理清楚可见。



左上肺放大,如下:



很明显,患者的气胸没有往高处走。贫穷限制了我们对奢侈生活的想象力,胸膜的粘连限制了气胸的流动性。

对于这个患者,既然锁骨中线第二肋间不适合胸腔穿刺,那么选择哪个位置呢?

如图:



结合CT,选择腋前线第五、六肋间穿刺抽气,更妥当。

那么,急性期、流动性气胸是什么样的呢?

CT如下:



关于流动性差的气胸的X片,先看看慢性不流动气胸,胸片如下:



下面是急性流动性气胸,气往高处走,对比一目了然:



由此可见,对于气胸,CT和X片各有优劣。

为什么要提慢性气胸这个奇葩的、突兀的、似乎不规范的概念?

■ 第八版内科学,127页,气胸患者禁止坐飞机!

然而,国外有文献报告,有些慢性气胸可以坐飞机:A chronic pneumothorax and fitness to fly!慢性气胸,有时候you can fly。

下面这个患者,慢性局限性气胸。英国,苏格兰,阿伯丁大学,环境和职业医学系的学者报道的病例。

阿伯丁大学是个什么样的大学?

阿伯丁大学,于1495年(中国明朝年间)在苏格兰阿伯丁创立,真的是源远流长,非常长,这椎间盘,不是一般的突出!



可以坐飞机吗?

As a consequence of the assessment, he was considered fit to fly and has completed
over a dozen flights, mostly transatlantic, without difficulty.

由于这次评估,他被认为适合飞行,并顺利地完成了十几次飞行,大部分是横渡大西洋。

■ 慢性气胸很可能不具有流动性,选择穿刺点要谨慎,不能提着穿刺针直奔锁骨中线第二肋间,要谨慎评估,选择合适的穿刺点。CT和X片评估气胸各有优劣。

下面再和大家分享一下,气胸透视的表现。因为透视目前很少用,大家估计对此已经很陌生了。

顺便说说,胸片诊断气胸,一定要会分辨肺纹理。肺纹理消失的地方,才考虑气胸,不可看见肩胛线就误以为是气胸。







最后,请注意:气胸一般不分急性和慢性,但是,慢性气胸的概念是有据可循的,不是凭空捏造的。

以前,哮喘和COPD一定要鉴别个你死我活,谁要是说这个患者哮喘合并COPD,会被鄙视的。

然而,国外的GOLD指南2014年说哮喘可以合并COPD,于是乎我们又疯狂的、突然地开始学习和研究哮喘合并COPD。

可以学习国外,但是一般不能一枝独秀,率先提出这个概念。

我重提这个概念,只是为了和大家分享,胸腔穿刺的注意事项颇多,我们一起分享经验,为人民服务,因为穿刺点错了,就是喂人民服雾。

原始出处:

1. Currie G P, Kennedy A M, Paterson E, et al. A chronic pneumothorax and fitness to fly.[J]. Chest, 2007, 62(2):187.

2. Brock R C. Recurrent and chronic spontaneous pneumothorax.[J]. Thorax, 1948, 3(2):88.

3. 叶达华, 张世明. 短小棒状杆菌菌苗胸腔内注射治疗复发性和慢性气胸[J]. 中华结核和呼吸杂志, 1995, 18(5):315-315.

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    2018-06-28 rgjl
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    2018-06-27 cscdliu

    学习了.谢谢

    0

  4. [GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=1311916, encodeId=0d1a131191683, content=<a href='/topic/show?id=21a6e54280e' target=_blank style='color:#2F92EE;'>#穿刺#</a>, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=41, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[TopicDto(id=75428, encryptionId=21a6e54280e, topicName=穿刺)], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=, createdBy=8b48400, createdName=rgjl, createdTime=Thu Jun 28 11:26:00 CST 2018, time=2018-06-28, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=1441840, encodeId=427b144184065, content=<a href='/topic/show?id=ee95638550d' target=_blank style='color:#2F92EE;'>#气胸#</a>, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=39, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[TopicDto(id=63855, encryptionId=ee95638550d, topicName=气胸)], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=4b0f4898732, createdName=12498c32m69暂无昵称, createdTime=Thu Jun 28 11:26:00 CST 2018, time=2018-06-28, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=327474, encodeId=1f7032e4748f, content=学习了.谢谢, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=82, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=https://cdnapi.center.medsci.cn/medsci/head/2017/10/23/557c1f19aaf5459a8405411e38903c4b.jpg, createdBy=dfc02088287, createdName=cscdliu, createdTime=Wed Jun 27 17:10:02 CST 2018, time=2018-06-27, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=327325, encodeId=2c3632e325a4, content=好文献学习了, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=77, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=, createdBy=b5a62240667, createdName=张新亮1853311252142e2fm, createdTime=Wed Jun 27 06:29:32 CST 2018, time=2018-06-27, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=327259, encodeId=a1b532e259ef, content=谢谢分享, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=81, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=, createdBy=8a7f2222944, createdName=121085c1m41(暂无昵称), createdTime=Wed Jun 27 00:03:43 CST 2018, time=2018-06-27, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=327236, encodeId=0bc432e2369a, content=了解一下.谢谢分享!, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=79, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=http://cdnapi.center.medsci.cn/medsci/head/2019/12/23/2f51002e1349ccda5be11c1eea1e1e60.jpg, createdBy=a22097948, createdName=天地飞扬, createdTime=Tue Jun 26 21:46:11 CST 2018, time=2018-06-26, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=327231, encodeId=543d32e23177, content=学习了, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=82, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=https://cdnapi.center.medsci.cn/medsci/head/2018/03/18/9fba4e8a3782366829a5645367fdb658.jpg, createdBy=b5732293938, createdName=青山颖钰, createdTime=Tue Jun 26 20:49:27 CST 2018, time=2018-06-26, status=1, ipAttribution=)]
    2018-06-27 张新亮1853311252142e2fm

    好文献学习了

    0

  5. [GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=1311916, encodeId=0d1a131191683, content=<a href='/topic/show?id=21a6e54280e' target=_blank style='color:#2F92EE;'>#穿刺#</a>, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=41, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[TopicDto(id=75428, encryptionId=21a6e54280e, topicName=穿刺)], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=, createdBy=8b48400, createdName=rgjl, createdTime=Thu Jun 28 11:26:00 CST 2018, time=2018-06-28, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=1441840, encodeId=427b144184065, content=<a href='/topic/show?id=ee95638550d' target=_blank style='color:#2F92EE;'>#气胸#</a>, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=39, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[TopicDto(id=63855, encryptionId=ee95638550d, topicName=气胸)], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=4b0f4898732, createdName=12498c32m69暂无昵称, createdTime=Thu Jun 28 11:26:00 CST 2018, time=2018-06-28, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=327474, encodeId=1f7032e4748f, content=学习了.谢谢, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=82, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=https://cdnapi.center.medsci.cn/medsci/head/2017/10/23/557c1f19aaf5459a8405411e38903c4b.jpg, createdBy=dfc02088287, createdName=cscdliu, createdTime=Wed Jun 27 17:10:02 CST 2018, time=2018-06-27, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=327325, encodeId=2c3632e325a4, content=好文献学习了, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=77, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=, createdBy=b5a62240667, createdName=张新亮1853311252142e2fm, createdTime=Wed Jun 27 06:29:32 CST 2018, time=2018-06-27, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=327259, encodeId=a1b532e259ef, content=谢谢分享, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=81, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=, createdBy=8a7f2222944, createdName=121085c1m41(暂无昵称), createdTime=Wed Jun 27 00:03:43 CST 2018, time=2018-06-27, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=327236, encodeId=0bc432e2369a, content=了解一下.谢谢分享!, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=79, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=http://cdnapi.center.medsci.cn/medsci/head/2019/12/23/2f51002e1349ccda5be11c1eea1e1e60.jpg, createdBy=a22097948, createdName=天地飞扬, createdTime=Tue Jun 26 21:46:11 CST 2018, time=2018-06-26, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=327231, encodeId=543d32e23177, content=学习了, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=82, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=https://cdnapi.center.medsci.cn/medsci/head/2018/03/18/9fba4e8a3782366829a5645367fdb658.jpg, createdBy=b5732293938, createdName=青山颖钰, createdTime=Tue Jun 26 20:49:27 CST 2018, time=2018-06-26, status=1, ipAttribution=)]
    2018-06-27 121085c1m41(暂无昵称)

    谢谢分享

    0

  6. [GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=1311916, encodeId=0d1a131191683, content=<a href='/topic/show?id=21a6e54280e' target=_blank style='color:#2F92EE;'>#穿刺#</a>, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=41, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[TopicDto(id=75428, encryptionId=21a6e54280e, topicName=穿刺)], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=, createdBy=8b48400, createdName=rgjl, createdTime=Thu Jun 28 11:26:00 CST 2018, time=2018-06-28, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=1441840, encodeId=427b144184065, content=<a href='/topic/show?id=ee95638550d' target=_blank style='color:#2F92EE;'>#气胸#</a>, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=39, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[TopicDto(id=63855, encryptionId=ee95638550d, topicName=气胸)], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=4b0f4898732, createdName=12498c32m69暂无昵称, createdTime=Thu Jun 28 11:26:00 CST 2018, time=2018-06-28, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=327474, encodeId=1f7032e4748f, content=学习了.谢谢, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=82, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=https://cdnapi.center.medsci.cn/medsci/head/2017/10/23/557c1f19aaf5459a8405411e38903c4b.jpg, createdBy=dfc02088287, createdName=cscdliu, createdTime=Wed Jun 27 17:10:02 CST 2018, time=2018-06-27, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=327325, encodeId=2c3632e325a4, content=好文献学习了, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=77, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=, createdBy=b5a62240667, createdName=张新亮1853311252142e2fm, createdTime=Wed Jun 27 06:29:32 CST 2018, time=2018-06-27, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=327259, encodeId=a1b532e259ef, content=谢谢分享, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=81, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=, createdBy=8a7f2222944, createdName=121085c1m41(暂无昵称), createdTime=Wed Jun 27 00:03:43 CST 2018, time=2018-06-27, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=327236, encodeId=0bc432e2369a, content=了解一下.谢谢分享!, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=79, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=http://cdnapi.center.medsci.cn/medsci/head/2019/12/23/2f51002e1349ccda5be11c1eea1e1e60.jpg, createdBy=a22097948, createdName=天地飞扬, createdTime=Tue Jun 26 21:46:11 CST 2018, time=2018-06-26, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=327231, encodeId=543d32e23177, content=学习了, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=82, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=https://cdnapi.center.medsci.cn/medsci/head/2018/03/18/9fba4e8a3782366829a5645367fdb658.jpg, createdBy=b5732293938, createdName=青山颖钰, createdTime=Tue Jun 26 20:49:27 CST 2018, time=2018-06-26, status=1, ipAttribution=)]
    2018-06-26 天地飞扬

    了解一下.谢谢分享!

    0

  7. [GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=1311916, encodeId=0d1a131191683, content=<a href='/topic/show?id=21a6e54280e' target=_blank style='color:#2F92EE;'>#穿刺#</a>, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=41, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[TopicDto(id=75428, encryptionId=21a6e54280e, topicName=穿刺)], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=, createdBy=8b48400, createdName=rgjl, createdTime=Thu Jun 28 11:26:00 CST 2018, time=2018-06-28, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=1441840, encodeId=427b144184065, content=<a href='/topic/show?id=ee95638550d' target=_blank style='color:#2F92EE;'>#气胸#</a>, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=39, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[TopicDto(id=63855, encryptionId=ee95638550d, topicName=气胸)], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=4b0f4898732, createdName=12498c32m69暂无昵称, createdTime=Thu Jun 28 11:26:00 CST 2018, time=2018-06-28, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=327474, encodeId=1f7032e4748f, content=学习了.谢谢, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=82, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=https://cdnapi.center.medsci.cn/medsci/head/2017/10/23/557c1f19aaf5459a8405411e38903c4b.jpg, createdBy=dfc02088287, createdName=cscdliu, createdTime=Wed Jun 27 17:10:02 CST 2018, time=2018-06-27, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=327325, encodeId=2c3632e325a4, content=好文献学习了, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=77, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=, createdBy=b5a62240667, createdName=张新亮1853311252142e2fm, createdTime=Wed Jun 27 06:29:32 CST 2018, time=2018-06-27, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=327259, encodeId=a1b532e259ef, content=谢谢分享, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=81, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=, createdBy=8a7f2222944, createdName=121085c1m41(暂无昵称), createdTime=Wed Jun 27 00:03:43 CST 2018, time=2018-06-27, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=327236, encodeId=0bc432e2369a, content=了解一下.谢谢分享!, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=79, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=http://cdnapi.center.medsci.cn/medsci/head/2019/12/23/2f51002e1349ccda5be11c1eea1e1e60.jpg, createdBy=a22097948, createdName=天地飞扬, createdTime=Tue Jun 26 21:46:11 CST 2018, time=2018-06-26, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=327231, encodeId=543d32e23177, content=学习了, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=82, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=https://cdnapi.center.medsci.cn/medsci/head/2018/03/18/9fba4e8a3782366829a5645367fdb658.jpg, createdBy=b5732293938, createdName=青山颖钰, createdTime=Tue Jun 26 20:49:27 CST 2018, time=2018-06-26, status=1, ipAttribution=)]
    2018-06-26 青山颖钰

    学习了

    0

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