樊代明:了解患者比认识疾病更重要

2016-11-28 樊代明 医学科学报

古希腊哲学家希波克拉底说:“对于一个医生来说,了解一个患者,比了解一个患者患什么病重要”。医学与科学的关系剪不断,理还乱,但从本篇和下篇文章述及的17种关系中可以一探究竟。一.个体与群体医学在发源初期,是从一个又一个人体诊疗的实践中获得个别成功案例,然后将其逐渐应用到更多个体(即群体),由此逐渐积累汇成经验。进入现代医学阶段,无论对疾病的流行病学调查,还是做临床药品或疗法的试验,只要经过伦理委

古希腊哲学家希波克拉底说:“对于一个医生来说,了解一个患者,比了解一个患者患什么病重要”。

医学与科学的关系剪不断,理还乱,但从本篇和下篇文章述及的关系中可以一探究竟。

一.个体与群体

医学在发源初期,是从一个又一个人体诊疗的实践中获得个别成功案例,然后将其逐渐应用到更多个体(即群体),由此逐渐积累汇成经验。进入现代医学阶段,无论对疾病的流行病学调查,还是做临床药品或疗法的试验,只要经过伦理委员会批准,就可以放到人群中去直接研究。这与长期以来那种个案研究方式相比,的确前进了一大步,这在科学上是可行的,是正确的。

但是,由于受到疾病谱、伦理学及经费的影响,受试对象的数量和观察的指标依然是十分有限的,依然是小群体,依然是抽样,还不是大样本或全样。因而,所获数据的代表性是十分有限的。

未来的临床试验方法应该是找到适应症,即给用药有效的那部分病人用药,给不用药有效的那部分病人和用药无效的那部分病人不要用药。循证医学作为一种科学方法是正确的,但引入医学领域来用,实际上是将带有显著异质性的大量个体看成是同质性人群,从中收集到的结果再用简单的百分比去求算,因而发生错误。其原因是它没有考虑到如下四种异质性导致的情况。

1、同病不同症。同样是感冒,甲为发热,乙为头痛,丙为咳嗽。既然是一种病都开一种药就好了,其实不然,我们得根据不同的人开不同的药,这叫同病异治。

2、同病不同害。同是幽门螺杆菌HP感染,按道理应全部根除。可HP可分CagA阳性株和阴性株,前者与胃癌相关,胃癌发生率比阴性者高2倍,应予以根除。而后者在正常人中多见,而且根除后近端胃癌发生增多,所以HP感染无症状者不应根除。

3、同病不同果。同是乙肝病毒感染,按理皆应抗病毒治疗。但有的可以自动清除,达到自愈;有的终身带毒,但不发病;有的很快发病,且向肝硬化进展,甚至发生肝癌。因此,对乙肝病毒感染者,是否抗病毒治疗应区别对待。

4、同药不同效。同是高血压或心动过速,用倍他洛克治疗,有人用25mg就见效,但有人用250mg却没效果。因此对高血压,尽管是同一种疾病应该因人而异,选用不同的药品治疗。

二.体外与体内

任何疗法在进入人体前,都应该在人体外得到证实。人体外的实验包括实验室研究和动物体内实验。

实验室研究是将生物体内的器官、组织、细胞或细胞中的某些成分,置于人工的环境,观察人为的干预因素对其功能活动的影响。这种实验容易控制条件,也容易深入到分子水平,有助于揭示生命现象中最为本质的基本规律,或最原始的基本规律。实验室研究的优点是:①环境因素可控;②可排除其他相关系统如内分泌、神经、免疫系统等的相互作用;③每一剂量水平可用大量的标本,如组织细胞等;④试验批间的误差较少;⑤可同时或多次上样或取样;⑥可直接用人体细胞做实验;⑦减少费用;⑧减少人体试验的成本及风险。这用科学的规范和要求是十分满意的。但是,由于研究对象脱离了整体,所处的环境也发生了很大变化,试验结果与体内的真实情况相比可能发生很大差异。其主要缺点是:①分子在细胞内的反应与在整体系统内有差异,从实验室的研究结果难以外推成体内的结果;②缺乏人体其他系统的调节或调控作用。比如癌细胞或细菌在体外检测发现有耐药现象,但同样的药品进入人体内表现为有效,并无耐药发生;③实验室研究一般为静态结果,难达长期维持生理状态的要求,因而对长期的临床价值评估意义可能不大。综上所述,体外的科学试验结果在人体的医学价值不能等同,只供参考。

动物试验可视为体内试验,但只是在动物体内的试验。为动物有别于人类,与人体内试验相比,依然是体外试验,即在人体以外的试验。在动物中获得的东西放到人体未必可获同样的结果。一个药品在动物体内有效,未必在人体内有效。其主要缺点是:①医学是针对人体个体的实践活动,人体个体的复杂性、特殊性和代表性(或统称异体性或异质性)这是动物种群难以模拟的;②目前建成的几乎所有疾病的动物模型都是人工的或人为的,不能完全代表疾病的真实状态,有些人体疾病是由生物因素引起的,而我们的动物模型常用化学方法来制造;③人体发病是多因素造成的,包括多基因,多阶段,这在动物是难以复制的;④人体疾病除了生理因素外,还有社会心理因素,后者在动物试验中是无法实现的。

所有体外实验,包括动物体内的试验所得的结果,它们是科学的,但用到人体,用到医学都只能是作参考,不然我们把科学的结论直接引入临床实践是会出问题的。即使是人体内的试验,因为人有人不同,存在明显的异体性或异质性。

三.外环境与内环境

自然环境对人体而言是外环境,它的千变万化,它变化的复杂性,将严重影响人体内环境的适应性和协调能力。

人体是由大量细胞共同组成的,每一种或每一类细胞通过发育分化,形成了独特的功能、各种独特的功能共同组合完成整体的生命功能。人体就像一部复杂的机器,各部件的功能可以通过神经、体液、免疫、内分泌等来进行整体调节,以万变应万变,确保自己的生存与繁衍,确保自己整体结构和功能的不变。

影响人体内环境与外环境平衡的因素也有很多。比如,PM2.5带有大量对健康有影响的细颗粒物质,不易被呼吸道纤毛阻挡,沉积在肺泡影响气体交换,甚至可以进入血液循环损害血红蛋白的携氧能力,加重心血管系统负担,甚至诱发肺癌。

四.结构与功能

除生命科学外,其他自然科学研究的多为非生命物质。医学研究的是生命的特殊物质或与生命相关的物质,它不局限于研究物质的结构,更重要的是研究物质的功能。

1.结构构型的多样性决定了生命功能的复杂性。

在地球生态系统中,没有一种物质的结构构型有生物那么巧夺天工。生命活动结构和功能的最小单元是细胞。细胞通过细胞膜与外界不停地进行合成和分解代谢。无论是细胞膜、细胞核或细胞器都有着十分复杂而独特的构形,就是这样的构型及相互间的密切配合,形成了各种各样的生理功能。

通过科学方法人工合成的催化剂远远比不过生物体内催化酶的催化效率,就是因为人工合成者其构型难达体内原装的构型。另外,体外用科学方法合成的东西总是存在左旋右旋,总有互为镜像的手性分子。而生物体内所有的核苷酸、绝大部分的氨基酸以及多数脂肪酸,它们都只有手性分子镜像的一面,其另一面的缺失构成了独特生命现象的对称性残缺,这就使得生命系统的结构和功能远比科学来得复杂。

2.有机体结构的构型是动态变化的。

人体各层次、各部分的结构,特别是其构型是发挥各自独特功能的基础,这些结构构型的变化形成了各种功能的多样性,而这些变化的动态性又形成了机体内部与外部环境间的适应性及适应的协调性。结构、构型及变化的动态性又受上一层次的调控来完成,它们相互联系,相互转化,共同完成整体功能的需要。

3、生物体具有对自身结构的自组织能力。

生命组织系统对其结构具有自组织能力。其中包括自我组织、自我修复和自我更新,这种自我组织功能是生命生理活动和适应内外环境的基础。

长期以来,还原论的机械生命观深刻地影响着我们对生命本质的认识。这种观点认为,一切生命现象都可以还原成物理、化学反应,生命现象并不复杂,只是认识的层次问题。按照这一理论来解释生命现象,遇到了许多长期不能解释的困惑。全世界迄今所知的最小最简单的生命是冰岛北部海下发现的一种古细菌,叫Nanoarch aeum equitans, 它也是由许多执行不同功能的组方组成的复合体。非常简单的例子,我们把一个玻璃罐摔碎,是很容易的,但你要把它重新还原是很难的,基本上是不可能的。当我们把一个生命系统剖分成各个部分时,我们研究的不过是一个死物,或者是一个已经失去了生命的物体。生命,作为系统的整体的性质,已随着剖分的过程而消失殆尽。

生命是一个典型的复杂系统,它的特征不是各部分、各层次的简单相加,整体特性也不能简单还原,生命是以整体结构的存在而存在,更是以整体功能的密切配合而存在的,这就是医学与科学之别所在。

现今的西医理论对生命的自组织规律揭示得比较完整,并得到超循环理论,协同学理论、结构耗散理论、系统学理论等自然科学理论的支持,但最大的不足是没有揭示出生命的本质规律,更为重要的是没有将其充分整合。依据这些分散的理论建立起来的现今的医学理论常常不能自圆其说,顾此失彼,这是生命本质的完整性和不可分割性决定的。只根据生命本质的某些规律得出的结论,虽然从科学上讲符合生命本质,但从医学上讲这只是触摸到生命本质的组成部分,而不是生命本质的全部内涵。

五.局部与整体

几乎所有的疾病都存在局部和全身两种形式,只是敦重敦轻,谁先谁后而已。比如皮肤病多达数千种,其实只有少数几种专属皮肤器官,比如单纯性毛囊炎或接触性皮炎等,其他可能都与整体有关,因为这些疾病都需全身治疗,光治局部是难以治愈的,如果治愈了那就是自愈的。

整体往往大于各部分之和,各部分在动态上表现为相互联系、相互影响、相互依存。现代的实验方法,多按科学的要求,分别把各部分的某些要素从整体中抽出来,在分离状态下研究其真相,其实难以反映密不可分的整体状态下的表现形式。

在临床医学中也是这样,一个人病了,有时是局部影响到全身,死亡是因全身因素而致。但有时是全身疾病在局部的表现。医生通常急于找到局部的病变,由此施治有时是错误的,甚至经常是错误的。

局部影响全身的例子很多很多,比如急性化脓性阑尾炎,病人有发烧、绞痛,我们不能立即退烧止痛,那样会耽误病情,但有时局部尽管有病变,可引起病人死亡的却是全身的损害。比如,重症胰腺炎,死亡率几达80%,尽管局部有病变,也很重,但不至于引起死亡,其实是全身发生的系统免疫反应综合征SiRS,是全身多脏器衰竭所致。此时主要是循环中各种炎性因子骤增引起内稳失调。此时抓住全身情况一治,比如血透,病人可以转危为安。眼科的医生告诉我,眼病真正由眼部的组织结构或功能异常引起者只占15%,85%是由全身因素引起的,如果我们只关注眼部疾病,那就是在用15%的能力给100%的病人治病。因此,我们在局部看到的现象,尽管是科学的,但只有整合到整体中得出的结果才真实,才叫医学。

六.微观与宏观

自从列文虎克发明显微镜后,西医学的研究就逐渐从宏观向微观发展,开始从系统、器官、组织、细胞、亚细胞、分子、直至夸克,因为人们要找到生命的真谛,也想找到疾病的本质。

但是,任何事物都是在某个层次或水平上发挥功能或作用的,微观也许是物质的本质,但生命只能在一定层面上表现出来。因此,太细未必能说明生命的本质问题。同样,太细未必能揭示疾病的真正病因。

病人是完整的整体,其生理表现或病理表现只大多发生在宏观层面上,所以我们一定要关注层次和层面,只有这样可能抓住主要矛盾,治愈疾病。

七.静态与动态

人体的成长,生命的延续是一个动态的过程,疾病的发生发展更是一个动态的过程。大家都知道,人类的疾病谱,通常都是随着时间和环境的变化而变化的。上世纪50—60年代,我国的主要疾病是感染性疾病;到了80—90年代,心脑血管疾病急骤增加,目前是以恶性肿瘤发病居多。同样,一个疾病的发生发展也是动态的过程,从潜伏期、发病期、恢复期,循序渐进,有的人可能在潜伏期就自愈了;有的可能进入发病期,尽管治疗最后还是死了;但有的可以贯穿疾病全程。在静止到动态这个过程中,总是存在相生相克。相生为主,相互向好的方向转化,疾病就好了;相克为主,比如癌基因与抑癌基因,相互间的矛盾,克占了上峰,病人可能就死了。如果相生相克,各不相让,始终进行,病人体内处於一种拉锯状态,就会形成迁延不愈的慢性病。

八.瞬间与长期

将时间不断分割,到不能再分割时,我们就叫瞬间。长期则为很多瞬间的延续。从科学角度讲,瞬间与长期都是时间的计量单位,科学追求的结果是希望瞬间越来越短的结果,那样的结果越来越正确,离真理越来越近,因在瞬间所见到的是尽可能排除了影响因素,尽可能固定为最有限的条件中的结果。如果时间一长,各种因素就会侵入其中,原来瞬间“纯洁”的状态就会杂乱开来,原来瞬间的结果就会被冲淡而不复存在。

但医学研究的对象正好是这种状态随着时间的推移,原始状态必然会发生变化。在医学,长期的结果并不是瞬间结果相加之和,因为各瞬间结果并不一致,也不一定是各瞬间结果循序演变而来,这就增加了医学基础和临床实践推测最终结果的难度。你经常可以听到医生说,如果不发生变化的话或治疗显效的话,你的情况会怎么怎么样。这对病人乍一听来好像不可思议,还怀疑医生的能力或者给自己留有后路,其实病人是按“科学”的规律在思维问题,而医生是在按医学的规律在思维、在回答病人的“科学问题”。病情从诊察时看到的瞬间表现,向长期发展会变幻莫测,见多了,就有了经验,这就是老医生为何临床经验多,他经历了大量瞬间的现象及其向长期的发展,于是获得了长期经验,这也是医学要求初学者必须要跟师学习,床旁学习,学者要人跟人,教者要手把手。

我们平时看到的X光照片上的异样病灶,病理切片上的异型细胞,或是心电图上的异常T波,那都是我们见到的瞬间现象,它可能代表某个病的本质,但有时什么也代表不了。如果我们只关注瞬间的现象用定形疗法给人治疗,有可能铸成大错。所以,我们在医学研究和实践中一定要注意疾病的发生是瞬间现象还是长期表现;一定要注意治疗的效果是药物的瞬间作用还是长期的疗效。

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  1. [GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=159984, encodeId=38d61599849f, content=对人类的认知太难,造物主太精!, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=83, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=, createdBy=73ad1985112, createdName=樊秋民, createdTime=Sat Dec 03 19:35:41 CST 2016, time=2016-12-03, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=159945, encodeId=3f3d1599450d, content=学习了好东西!, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=68, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=, createdBy=92191944782, createdName=thlabcde, createdTime=Sat Dec 03 13:20:34 CST 2016, time=2016-12-03, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=159111, encodeId=c8111591111f, content=赞同很好的谢谢, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=87, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=https://wx.qlogo.cn/mmopen/Q3auHgzwzM6DGOvNrRdcib3UmzMgpEQpl0ENSJScphsFtdgfibXX1g1IuEYGCjP23UqCd52TxTpSZibtPiclyusaHicnNXd78alaia19Qy1nAFo18/0, createdBy=50381491660, createdName=zwjnj2, createdTime=Wed Nov 30 08:50:14 CST 2016, time=2016-11-30, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=1568794, encodeId=354b1568e94c8, content=<a href='/topic/show?id=967c62945b4' target=_blank style='color:#2F92EE;'>#樊代明#</a>, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=55, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[TopicDto(id=62945, encryptionId=967c62945b4, topicName=樊代明)], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=0c1015444723, createdName=珙桐, createdTime=Wed Nov 30 06:38:00 CST 2016, time=2016-11-30, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=159019, encodeId=3e7e15901923, content=太强大了?厉害, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=83, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=7a3e1928208, createdName=顾小北大魔王, createdTime=Wed Nov 30 00:10:22 CST 2016, time=2016-11-30, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=158872, encodeId=6bdf1588e24e, content=说得好,学习了!, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=78, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=https://wx.qlogo.cn/mmopen/NUyjXTCJjo5WdRCZb0Hs1YiaOB88m23a0oYulDm9Z0Es2N8rk8dmG1tkgXOibgBGBTMpwlof4aic6HdrIeR2zF09okwsgRbedK0/0, createdBy=72f41927023, createdName=Johnson_zhangdr, createdTime=Tue Nov 29 12:31:31 CST 2016, time=2016-11-29, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=158840, encodeId=35d115884056, content=谢谢了,学习了, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=39, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=30331616752, createdName=txqjm, createdTime=Tue Nov 29 10:14:49 CST 2016, time=2016-11-29, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=158836, encodeId=2d7f158836b7, content=很好的见解,涨姿势了。, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=38, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=, createdBy=76491981781, createdName=1e184d7bm65(暂无匿称), createdTime=Tue Nov 29 10:01:42 CST 2016, time=2016-11-29, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=158820, encodeId=3ab4158820b2, content=学习了新的知识,讲的非常棒!???, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=25, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=, createdBy=76491981781, createdName=1e184d7bm65(暂无匿称), createdTime=Tue Nov 29 09:39:10 CST 2016, time=2016-11-29, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=158780, encodeId=8c1d158e80b9, content=学习了,谢谢!, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=31, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=https://wx.qlogo.cn/mmopen/NUyjXTCJjo5nmIH5IQqCKjJgSCuicPWUWOUcdqt1ROPnEiaOYN4pSHibDv8la3OxNLalvuvUXn8clpJlrpuyTpckgt9OPkeSSdT/0, createdBy=8fd71930726, createdName=半夏微凉, createdTime=Tue Nov 29 06:06:58 CST 2016, time=2016-11-29, status=1, ipAttribution=)]
    2016-12-03 樊秋民

    对人类的认知太难,造物主太精!

    0

  2. [GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=159984, encodeId=38d61599849f, content=对人类的认知太难,造物主太精!, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=83, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=, createdBy=73ad1985112, createdName=樊秋民, createdTime=Sat Dec 03 19:35:41 CST 2016, time=2016-12-03, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=159945, encodeId=3f3d1599450d, content=学习了好东西!, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=68, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=, createdBy=92191944782, createdName=thlabcde, createdTime=Sat Dec 03 13:20:34 CST 2016, time=2016-12-03, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=159111, encodeId=c8111591111f, content=赞同很好的谢谢, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=87, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=https://wx.qlogo.cn/mmopen/Q3auHgzwzM6DGOvNrRdcib3UmzMgpEQpl0ENSJScphsFtdgfibXX1g1IuEYGCjP23UqCd52TxTpSZibtPiclyusaHicnNXd78alaia19Qy1nAFo18/0, createdBy=50381491660, createdName=zwjnj2, createdTime=Wed Nov 30 08:50:14 CST 2016, time=2016-11-30, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=1568794, encodeId=354b1568e94c8, content=<a href='/topic/show?id=967c62945b4' target=_blank style='color:#2F92EE;'>#樊代明#</a>, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=55, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[TopicDto(id=62945, encryptionId=967c62945b4, topicName=樊代明)], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=0c1015444723, createdName=珙桐, createdTime=Wed Nov 30 06:38:00 CST 2016, time=2016-11-30, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=159019, encodeId=3e7e15901923, content=太强大了?厉害, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=83, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=7a3e1928208, createdName=顾小北大魔王, createdTime=Wed Nov 30 00:10:22 CST 2016, time=2016-11-30, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=158872, encodeId=6bdf1588e24e, content=说得好,学习了!, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=78, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=https://wx.qlogo.cn/mmopen/NUyjXTCJjo5WdRCZb0Hs1YiaOB88m23a0oYulDm9Z0Es2N8rk8dmG1tkgXOibgBGBTMpwlof4aic6HdrIeR2zF09okwsgRbedK0/0, createdBy=72f41927023, createdName=Johnson_zhangdr, createdTime=Tue Nov 29 12:31:31 CST 2016, time=2016-11-29, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=158840, encodeId=35d115884056, content=谢谢了,学习了, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=39, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=30331616752, createdName=txqjm, createdTime=Tue Nov 29 10:14:49 CST 2016, time=2016-11-29, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=158836, encodeId=2d7f158836b7, content=很好的见解,涨姿势了。, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=38, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=, createdBy=76491981781, createdName=1e184d7bm65(暂无匿称), createdTime=Tue Nov 29 10:01:42 CST 2016, time=2016-11-29, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=158820, encodeId=3ab4158820b2, content=学习了新的知识,讲的非常棒!???, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=25, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=, createdBy=76491981781, createdName=1e184d7bm65(暂无匿称), createdTime=Tue Nov 29 09:39:10 CST 2016, time=2016-11-29, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=158780, encodeId=8c1d158e80b9, content=学习了,谢谢!, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=31, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=https://wx.qlogo.cn/mmopen/NUyjXTCJjo5nmIH5IQqCKjJgSCuicPWUWOUcdqt1ROPnEiaOYN4pSHibDv8la3OxNLalvuvUXn8clpJlrpuyTpckgt9OPkeSSdT/0, createdBy=8fd71930726, createdName=半夏微凉, createdTime=Tue Nov 29 06:06:58 CST 2016, time=2016-11-29, status=1, ipAttribution=)]
    2016-12-03 thlabcde

    学习了好东西!

    0

  3. [GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=159984, encodeId=38d61599849f, content=对人类的认知太难,造物主太精!, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=83, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=, createdBy=73ad1985112, createdName=樊秋民, createdTime=Sat Dec 03 19:35:41 CST 2016, time=2016-12-03, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=159945, encodeId=3f3d1599450d, content=学习了好东西!, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=68, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=, createdBy=92191944782, createdName=thlabcde, createdTime=Sat Dec 03 13:20:34 CST 2016, time=2016-12-03, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=159111, encodeId=c8111591111f, content=赞同很好的谢谢, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=87, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=https://wx.qlogo.cn/mmopen/Q3auHgzwzM6DGOvNrRdcib3UmzMgpEQpl0ENSJScphsFtdgfibXX1g1IuEYGCjP23UqCd52TxTpSZibtPiclyusaHicnNXd78alaia19Qy1nAFo18/0, createdBy=50381491660, createdName=zwjnj2, createdTime=Wed Nov 30 08:50:14 CST 2016, time=2016-11-30, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=1568794, encodeId=354b1568e94c8, content=<a href='/topic/show?id=967c62945b4' target=_blank style='color:#2F92EE;'>#樊代明#</a>, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=55, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[TopicDto(id=62945, encryptionId=967c62945b4, topicName=樊代明)], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=0c1015444723, createdName=珙桐, createdTime=Wed Nov 30 06:38:00 CST 2016, time=2016-11-30, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=159019, encodeId=3e7e15901923, content=太强大了?厉害, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=83, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=7a3e1928208, createdName=顾小北大魔王, createdTime=Wed Nov 30 00:10:22 CST 2016, time=2016-11-30, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=158872, encodeId=6bdf1588e24e, content=说得好,学习了!, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=78, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=https://wx.qlogo.cn/mmopen/NUyjXTCJjo5WdRCZb0Hs1YiaOB88m23a0oYulDm9Z0Es2N8rk8dmG1tkgXOibgBGBTMpwlof4aic6HdrIeR2zF09okwsgRbedK0/0, createdBy=72f41927023, createdName=Johnson_zhangdr, createdTime=Tue Nov 29 12:31:31 CST 2016, time=2016-11-29, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=158840, encodeId=35d115884056, content=谢谢了,学习了, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=39, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=30331616752, createdName=txqjm, createdTime=Tue Nov 29 10:14:49 CST 2016, time=2016-11-29, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=158836, encodeId=2d7f158836b7, content=很好的见解,涨姿势了。, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=38, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=, createdBy=76491981781, createdName=1e184d7bm65(暂无匿称), createdTime=Tue Nov 29 10:01:42 CST 2016, time=2016-11-29, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=158820, encodeId=3ab4158820b2, content=学习了新的知识,讲的非常棒!???, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=25, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=, createdBy=76491981781, createdName=1e184d7bm65(暂无匿称), createdTime=Tue Nov 29 09:39:10 CST 2016, time=2016-11-29, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=158780, encodeId=8c1d158e80b9, content=学习了,谢谢!, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=31, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=https://wx.qlogo.cn/mmopen/NUyjXTCJjo5nmIH5IQqCKjJgSCuicPWUWOUcdqt1ROPnEiaOYN4pSHibDv8la3OxNLalvuvUXn8clpJlrpuyTpckgt9OPkeSSdT/0, createdBy=8fd71930726, createdName=半夏微凉, createdTime=Tue Nov 29 06:06:58 CST 2016, time=2016-11-29, status=1, ipAttribution=)]
    2016-11-30 zwjnj2

    赞同很好的谢谢

    0

  4. [GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=159984, encodeId=38d61599849f, content=对人类的认知太难,造物主太精!, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=83, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=, createdBy=73ad1985112, createdName=樊秋民, createdTime=Sat Dec 03 19:35:41 CST 2016, time=2016-12-03, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=159945, encodeId=3f3d1599450d, content=学习了好东西!, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=68, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=, createdBy=92191944782, createdName=thlabcde, createdTime=Sat Dec 03 13:20:34 CST 2016, time=2016-12-03, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=159111, encodeId=c8111591111f, content=赞同很好的谢谢, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=87, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=https://wx.qlogo.cn/mmopen/Q3auHgzwzM6DGOvNrRdcib3UmzMgpEQpl0ENSJScphsFtdgfibXX1g1IuEYGCjP23UqCd52TxTpSZibtPiclyusaHicnNXd78alaia19Qy1nAFo18/0, createdBy=50381491660, createdName=zwjnj2, createdTime=Wed Nov 30 08:50:14 CST 2016, time=2016-11-30, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=1568794, encodeId=354b1568e94c8, content=<a href='/topic/show?id=967c62945b4' target=_blank style='color:#2F92EE;'>#樊代明#</a>, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=55, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[TopicDto(id=62945, encryptionId=967c62945b4, topicName=樊代明)], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=0c1015444723, createdName=珙桐, createdTime=Wed Nov 30 06:38:00 CST 2016, time=2016-11-30, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=159019, encodeId=3e7e15901923, content=太强大了?厉害, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=83, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=7a3e1928208, createdName=顾小北大魔王, createdTime=Wed Nov 30 00:10:22 CST 2016, time=2016-11-30, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=158872, encodeId=6bdf1588e24e, content=说得好,学习了!, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=78, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=https://wx.qlogo.cn/mmopen/NUyjXTCJjo5WdRCZb0Hs1YiaOB88m23a0oYulDm9Z0Es2N8rk8dmG1tkgXOibgBGBTMpwlof4aic6HdrIeR2zF09okwsgRbedK0/0, createdBy=72f41927023, createdName=Johnson_zhangdr, createdTime=Tue Nov 29 12:31:31 CST 2016, time=2016-11-29, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=158840, encodeId=35d115884056, content=谢谢了,学习了, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=39, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=30331616752, createdName=txqjm, createdTime=Tue Nov 29 10:14:49 CST 2016, time=2016-11-29, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=158836, encodeId=2d7f158836b7, content=很好的见解,涨姿势了。, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=38, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=, createdBy=76491981781, createdName=1e184d7bm65(暂无匿称), createdTime=Tue Nov 29 10:01:42 CST 2016, time=2016-11-29, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=158820, encodeId=3ab4158820b2, content=学习了新的知识,讲的非常棒!???, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=25, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=, createdBy=76491981781, createdName=1e184d7bm65(暂无匿称), createdTime=Tue Nov 29 09:39:10 CST 2016, time=2016-11-29, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=158780, encodeId=8c1d158e80b9, content=学习了,谢谢!, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=31, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=https://wx.qlogo.cn/mmopen/NUyjXTCJjo5nmIH5IQqCKjJgSCuicPWUWOUcdqt1ROPnEiaOYN4pSHibDv8la3OxNLalvuvUXn8clpJlrpuyTpckgt9OPkeSSdT/0, createdBy=8fd71930726, createdName=半夏微凉, createdTime=Tue Nov 29 06:06:58 CST 2016, time=2016-11-29, status=1, ipAttribution=)]
    2016-11-30 珙桐
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    2016-11-30 顾小北大魔王

    太强大了?厉害

    0

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    2016-11-29 Johnson_zhangdr

    说得好,学习了!

    0

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    2016-11-29 txqjm

    谢谢了,学习了

    0

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    2016-11-29 1e184d7bm65(暂无匿称)

    很好的见解,涨姿势了。

    0

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    2016-11-29 1e184d7bm65(暂无匿称)

    学习了新的知识,讲的非常棒!???

    0

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    2016-11-29 半夏微凉

    学习了,谢谢!

    0

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